Recently I read an article from BusinessWeek that (in the magazine) had a photo of the new Blackberry 8700c. I was impressed enough by the looks to give the article a read and found a few kudos for RIM on this one. I also skimmed a Wired blog article on it as well.
First Look
The photo brings the keyboard to my attention first. In my comparison of the Blackberry 7100t with the Treo I had a land line up my butt about the poor keyboard on the 7100t. This one looks much better and much more usable. Kudo #1 to RIM.
The next thing I looked for was the camera, to no avail. At this point, the comparisons stop for me because I gotta have my MoPho. But, for those of you who aren’t interested in the camera, I’ll continue.
2nd Try
The short and sweet of it is, beyond all the little modifications I’ve read about, it seems the interface is pretty much the same (1 boo from me because of it’s complexity). The screen is smaller (320×280 compared to the Treo’s 320×320) but apparently pretty bright, so that one is a wash. The one big kudo I can give to RIM is the web browsing appears to be super quick and much easier to navigate. Since I haven’t seen one physically yet, I won’t confirm that, but I’ll be generous and throw them another bone for stepping up to the plate and fixing that.
Last Glance
The last almost good thing I can say about this Blackberry is it’s finally got some processor punch. The unfortunate downside (at least so far) is that there’s no programs out there to support the power quite yet. So, right now, from a business owner’s and gadget lover’s perspective, I’d have to still go for the Treo because of it’s support of other documents and programs. It reminds me of the Sega vs. Nintendo days where Sega just couldn’t make it work out because they didn’t have the game choice/volume.
I’d say if RIM throws a camera and some good document/program/3rd party support apps into the fray, there might be a good brawl going. Especially since the 8700 only costs $299 as opposed to Treo’s consistently high ($650-ish) ticket price.
What do you think about the Treo or the Blackberry lines?
Update: In case anyone would like to comment on the 8800 vs Treo 750, I’ve written a basic review here.
Posted by karen on Nov 26, 2005 at 10:52am
Nice writeup. Indeed, the Blackberry is providing some welcome competition to the Treo. And that competition will definitely benefit Treo users.
Since I rarely use my Treo for email, the blackberry wouldn’t be as useful for me. And, I confess, I’m not even in the target demographic for the 700w (since I’m not interested in a windows OS Treo).
The Treo’s appeal (for me) is the Palm OS and the Treo’s versatility — I don’t know of any other gadgets where I can stream Internet radio, take photos/video, listen to audio books, read ebooks, check my stocks, make phone calls, play scrabble, keep track of my finances (Pocket Quicken), view Google maps, navigate using GPS software (along with a bluetooth gps antenna), and even store an episode of my favorite comedy (Absolutely Fabulous) for a quick laugh when I need it.
I’m very curious to see how the Treos in the 2006 pipeline ( http://blog.treonauts.com/treo_zen_preview/index.html ) will compare, I’m especially interested in the 700P vs the “Hollywood”. Hey, it’s all good.
Posted by nate on Nov 26, 2005 at 10:45pm
Great link and comment Karen! I will definitely be checking out the products you mentioned (700P, etc). What applications do you use on your Treo right now? And can I assume you have the 650 currently?
Posted by Mike on Mar 02, 2006 at 03:57pm
No offense but your wrong about EVERYTHING. The display on the Treo 700w is 320×280 as with the Blackberry. The Blackberry has MUCH more colors and is a better device. You sound like you are a consumer user, thus you like the Treo. If you really cared if you had a stable, push-capable handheld… you’d like the blackberry. due to work-place sabotage most buisnesses (good ones anyway) don’t allow camera phones, thus blackberry has omitted it from their products. They don’t yet have a consumer line. So until then, the Treo vs. Blackberry debate is NOT POSSIBLE. For serious users are ALWAYS going to opt for the blackberry (hence me using one)
Posted by karen on Mar 02, 2006 at 04:05pm
Um, the 650 is push-capable.
The blackberry is a fine device, but not my preference (and, btw, I’m a geek, so I’m well aware of what’s available in the marketplace) — sorry to hear that makes me “wrong”. (Are we in high school?)
It’s a big interesting world out there and what works for one person may not work for another. And that’s okay.
Posted by nate on Mar 02, 2006 at 05:24pm
Hahah.. Comments like “you['re] wrong about EVERYTHING” and “most businesses (good ones anyway)” and “ALWAYS going to opt for the blackberry” make me laugh.
Let me try out some humor. Ok. So, most commenters (good ones anyway) on a blog ALWAYS use overarching generalities to make a point. That makes this comment PERFECT and COMPLETELY RIGHT.
Did I make my point?
Ok, so back to the real debate (that is possible because we’re having it right now).
Karen, thank you for commenting. And yes, the blackberry is a fine device. It also is not my preference (even though I currently have one). I also am well aware of what’s in the marketplace and unfortunately for me, T-mobile currently doesn’t handle the Treo 700w (or the 650 for that matter), so I’m not able to get one (T-mobile has the best coverage in my area).
Oh, and yes, I am a “consumer user”. Who isn’t? If you’re a human, you’re a consumer and a user. Hmm.. *shrug* whatever.
Posted by Andre on Mar 06, 2006 at 01:20am
Dunno where Mike gets his info… or for matter of fact the blog writer.
The 700w is 240×240… Yes, the resolution went DOWN when they moved to Windows Mobile, the Palm OS Treo devices were 320×320; and no Treo ever ran 320×280.
Posted by D on Mar 16, 2006 at 06:40am
I have both. No doubt, Treo wins. Blackberry’s are expensive to support and I have found that they are slower in our market. Screens are very dull and boring and you have to love the ability to stylusize your life.
Posted by Robby on Mar 18, 2006 at 05:06am
Hi
Love reading the reviews! Im a school teacher and I have a blackberry 7130. I love it very much. I must say though I have never used the treo, but would love to see the differences at work!
Posted by Ken on Mar 29, 2006 at 06:50pm
The problem is that Mike is right. The blackberry is a better solution for serious business users. It’s far more stable and more durable. It has much, much better battery life. And, as part of a seamless solution; i.e. server/device/network - it’s inherently more secure and has all of business capabilities that one could want - all sitting at the server - not on the device. All the crappy third party apps you can get from the zillion or so palm o/s guys is mostly consumer - not business- oreinted. The camera and mp3 player is ok to have - again as a consumer - not a business person. The bottom line is that the BlackBerry does core business applications (email, calendar, contacts, and other outlook functions: much better than the treo. The treo does lots of other things - from pretty well to pretty badly. The BB 8700 finally has a decent browser and with EDGE networks, some decent bandwidth to support it. It has better screen resolution than the treo 700 and a brighter backlight. the scroll wheel still beats the pants off of the Treo navigation techniques, and it’s rock solid. The Blackberry 8700 is a serious communications tool - the treo is a toy for rich over-grown boys and girls. And if you really want any type of true encryped end-to-end security, you’d have to get a Good Technology server (yes, a third party server) to provide all of the security that a BB server provides. Having said all that - the Treo is a great device - a super phone, really. But, for core business applications, the Blackberry 8700 is better.
Posted by Mike on Mar 29, 2006 at 08:07pm
yep. ‘mike’ is right.
I am correct. I like how someone said “treo supports push also… dont question me I’m a geek” and yet the ‘geek’ was wrong.
The treo needs oodles of third party, consumer based additives. while the blackberry has everything built in. and runs on the infamous blackberry server. i agree with Ken. the treo is for old boys and girls who aren’t serious users and have to much money. anyone who’s a serious user has a blackberry.Comments like: “Oh, and yes, I am a “consumer user”. Who isn’t? If you’re a human, you’re a consumer and a user.” that a little third grade. its like saying “its a free country, i can say whatever” come on people. the plain fact is blackberry got a lot of bad publicity with there 7100 series devices. it was aimed at “consumer users” the problem is. blackberry doesn’t make consumer devices. they simply got so much pressure from consumer users whos serious business friends raved about the blackberry they made a consumer device. there in lies the problem. they released this. consumer users purchased it. they hated it. and with good reason. people who spend 400 bucks on a smart-phone expect it to sprout wings and fly or something. while business users are content with a stable os and great productivity features. blackberry made the device consumer-esque but not totally treo reminiscent consumer. in the end the blackberry is a no non-sense stable device. the plain fact is if you need all the features in a treo. tote a small laptop (like the 12 inch powerbook)
Posted by nate on Mar 30, 2006 at 09:27am
Ok, I’ll agree with Mike and Ken (I’m not sure I disagreed) on the point of difference for a business user versus a consumer user. I would not say that a business user is a power user, however. And I wouldn’t say that the BB is better than the Treo for just that reason. Different uses, different phones.
I have absolutely no use for the BB. Not because I’m not a business user. I am. I just hate the scrolling push button crap and I hate the way BB has integrated their UI for email and calendaring. So, to each their own I guess. I prefer a handheld Treo over a 12″ anything or a BB. But, hey, it’s my review and I can cry if I want to.
“Rich over-grown boys and girls” who like “nonsense”, UNITE! haha.
Posted by Mike on Mar 30, 2006 at 06:57pm
nate-
you make a very good point.
“TO EACH HIS OWN”
Posted by Smallie on Mar 31, 2006 at 12:19am
man, i’m doing an economics assignment for my grade 11 class. I honestly thought that i was childish, but i guess this is how “grown-ups” disagree huh? well, i’m gonna take some info and suggestions and statements which you dudes made. I’m not “geek”, but i totally understand what’s going on. Other than that, i’ve got homework to do, so thanks for your opinions, they really do help in a very weird and complicated way. Toodles =]
Posted by nate on Mar 31, 2006 at 12:23am
haha.. Yes Smallie, this IS how grownups disagree. I hope you get an A.
Posted by Ken on Mar 31, 2006 at 11:03am
Nate - you can’t put an age limit on immature behavior! Anyway, I did want to mention that even though I personally think the 8700 is the better device, that the real decisions are made in the market place and by a very clear margin - most people prefer Treos to BlackBerrys and that’s just the way it is. I actually sell wireless data solutions and managed services for a living - so I sell both BlackBerry and Treo product (as well as a bunch of other stuff) all day long and I get great feedback from folks about what they like and don’t like about these devices. And both the 8700 and the treo700 have yielded the smallest amount of returns I’ve seen in recent memory. It’s nice that people can have a choice of two decent products. And good luck with your project.
Posted by nate on Mar 31, 2006 at 11:14am
Ken,
Thank you for your support of ageless immaturity. Or at least recognizing it. And thank you for your comment. I appreciate the fuzzy stats or impressions from someone who actually works with the things.
Posted by Bob on May 18, 2006 at 10:00am
Can I or can I not open a revise an excel spreadsheet with the Blackberry? Can I view it?
Posted by Ken on May 18, 2006 at 11:55am
You can open an excel spreadsheet on a Blackberry. However, you cannot revise it or otherwise work on it. It’s a “read-only” application. The real question is why would you want to - on either a Blackberry or a Treo? Neither device is really suited for that type of use. The screen size alone would be a mitigating factor. Much better to simply get an aircard and a small laptop or tablet device, if that is going to be a priority function.
Posted by nate on May 18, 2006 at 04:05pm
The question isn’t “why would you want to?” Does “why” really matter? The fact I want that feature matters. And if I can’t, then for my purposes, the Blackberry just doesn’t do it.
Much better to simply put the functionality in for people like me (and Bob?) who want that, and not to tell us to buy something more expensive and less travel-friendly to solve something that’s not a problem with the Treo.
Crap, I did it again… sorry for getting all over ya. I guess I’m getting tired of people saying that the features in a Treo are better in a laptop. Heck, that’s why I like the Treo - cause I don’t have to carry around a laptop.
Posted by Ken on May 18, 2006 at 06:40pm
I hear you and I respect that. I’m just personally disappointed in this particular Treo model. I don’t think they really have the windows mobile thing down well yet. And so the device is unstable and twitchy and a pain in the ass. The really new 700P model seems to be much better - but alas - it has a Palm O/S. Maybe the real question now is - ca you work on excel using the 700P - and to the question - my answer is: I don’t know. Probably with some third party app installed. But not seamlessly like the windows mobile version. I just wish it was a better device.
Posted by nate on May 18, 2006 at 08:40pm
Well, it’s good to know that you’re disappointed in this particular model (since I haven’t tried the 700w yet). I’m assuming the 700p will work with Excel. The 650 did, and it was Palm based. Although, come to think of it, we may have had a 3rd party app. I used the 650 when it was provided by the company I used to work for.
Additionally, I’m excited about the p version because it will work better with my Mac. Bummer about the 700w though.
Posted by Ken on May 18, 2006 at 08:43pm
I have a Mac, too, so I completely empathize with that. And yeah, I bet it’s a 3rd party app that gives you the excel access. But so what? As long as it works. See if you can get your hands on that P version. As a 650 user, you will really appreciate the upgrade, while still having familiarity with the device.
Posted by nate on May 18, 2006 at 09:09pm
I completely agree. I will be getting the 700p as soon as possible (might be a few months before we settle into the area a little more, but I’m definitely getting it).. thanks Ken.
Posted by Mike on May 18, 2006 at 09:45pm
Nate-
Why is it a ‘bummer’ that the 700w will not work with a mac? Your not a mac user, who longs for windows mobile are you?
Posted by nate on May 18, 2006 at 10:01pm
Oh, just because I always wished that Windows OS’s were better than what they are. I’m not a Windows fan anymore. I grew up on windows, but then graduated to Mac OSX last year.
Posted by Ken on May 19, 2006 at 10:15am
As for me, I’ll be perfectly content with my BlackBerry 8700, using the PocketMac application for my Mac.
Posted by Ruby on May 22, 2006 at 07:11pm
I’m not much of a techie…I basically need a PDA for email and phone…not too interested in any of the other bells and whistles (at least I don’t think so…). Should I be considering either of these devices, or is there a simpler, less expensive alternative?
Posted by Ken on May 22, 2006 at 07:20pm
What might make sense for you is the previous model BlackBerry or Treo; specifically, the 7290 Blackberry and the 650 Treo. They both have the same core functionality that you are looking for, but because they aren’t the most current models, they sell for hundreds of dollars less. The 7290 is a terrific model - one I still use on a daily basis. You can also check with Cingular who, from time to time, will sell refurbished models. I undestand that they currently do have refurbished 8700s available. Refurbs provided by a carrier are usually a very good bet - and should be virtually indistinguishable from a new model. In any case, you shouldn’t have to spend more than $199.99 for these upper end devices, both of which are far better for email and data, than most typical “smart phones”.
Posted by Ruby on May 22, 2006 at 07:29pm
Huh…good stuff. Here’s my other problem…how do I buy a device that’s not affiliated with a carrier? I already have Verizon and they’ve told me that if I buy through them, I’m going to pay full retail b/c my servive date is
Posted by Ken on May 22, 2006 at 07:35pm
Yes, well, that is one of several problems with Verizon. You also won’t find the 8700 model there, either. Your alternative is the 7250 or the 7130e. Anyway, the best you can do with Verizon is try to buy those two models on e-bay (or the treo 700). Because Verizon doesn’t use sim cards, they make these type of transactions very difficult, very deliberately.
Posted by Nicole on Jun 29, 2006 at 02:50pm
I am currently in the market for a BB or Treo. But clearly not sure which way to go. I am starting a very small business and this phone would be my business phone as my work will keep me traveling. I would need to keep client info, records, and documents that I would need to send fairly often. Obviously though I am also a consumer user. I would appreciate all opinions.
Posted by nate on Jun 29, 2006 at 03:19pm
Nicole,
I’m a biased Treo lover. So, I naturally suggest the Treo 700. And if you’re used to windows, the 700w has Windows CE on it. If you want Palm (which integrates with Macs nicer), you can get the 700p when it comes out, if it hasn’t already.
Posted by Ken on Jun 29, 2006 at 05:30pm
The Treo 700p is indeed out and from what I have experienced, it is a superior device to the 700w. Even though it is a Palm O/S it seems to me that it actually works better with Microsoft apps than the windows mobile 5 device. I would also recommend looking at the new BlackBerry 7130, which I have in my possession. It has far exceeded my expectations for form factor, phone quality, and ease of use. And the second generation SureType is nothing short of incredible. It has never guessed wrong yet. And the intel chip has greatly improved the browser and general processing experience. And it’s now available on Cingular, as well as Verizon, on Cingular’s EDGE network, which, at least on the BlackBerry, seems to finally have sufficient bandwidth for serious browsing.
The Treo has more third party app capability and more ways to navigate and more you can do with it (camera, added memory, etc). But it’s still not quite as stable or as durable as the BB, although it is an excellent device, these days.
Posted by Anonymous on Aug 25, 2006 at 12:32am
The palm is just ugly hehehehe
thats all
Posted by Anonymous on Aug 25, 2006 at 12:34am
by the way
I have BB and 8700g is THE BEST THIN EVER!!!!!!
for me !!!!! hehehe
Posted by Anonymous on Aug 25, 2006 at 05:52am
Look the Blackberry is 10000000 times easier to support especially if you have a blackberry enterprise server at your work.. Which i guess is kinda the point the BBs are for the business community the treo are more like toys. For example a person purchase a blackberry from across the country I can have that unit setup in 1 minute via an email that gives them a password to activate it. Treo’s forget it.. either you use web active sync which passes email plain test to a internet sync server or spend more money on good server or you just rig email forwarding. BB is far more secure… the BB server can set policies and enforce and expire passwords and clear a device of all information if it gets stolen. I guess from the inidividual user standpoint its preference but from Administration standpoint Blackberry wins hands down
Posted by nate on Aug 25, 2006 at 08:07am
Anon…. I think you’ve hit the point exactly from my experience. As an individual user, not needing it to be supported by an administrator, I would rather use the Treo. But, if I were an admin, I would completely want the BB’s distributed.
If you have any opinions on the Motorola Q, Let ’s here them here.
Posted by Ken on Aug 25, 2006 at 05:03pm
I have been using the BlackBerry 7130c over the last few months and I’ve been very impressed with this model. Although I’ve tended to favor BBs over Treos because of the all business perspective I holed (versus using it for “play”), this new BB really transcends those biz-only functions. The screen is fantastic - the size and feel of the device is exceptional - and the SURETYPE app is a huge improvement over the 7100 models. This thing is far more stable than a Treo (windows or palm), and performs its core functions as well or better than a treo. And these days, you would bed surprised by the amount of third party developers who are designing for BB these days. The set-up of individual email (not server based) was so seamless and easy that it, alone, could sell me on it. If I were to get a Treo, it would definitely be the Palm OS - and most definitely not the windows mobile 5 device which is still an imperfect and inelegant solution.
Posted by Ken on Aug 25, 2006 at 05:06pm
Oh - and hold on to your hats, because the new BB 8100 is coming out any week now, first on T-Mobile, and then on Cingular. It will have a camera, Nate (!) additional memory storage, and the famous side wheel is going away in favor of a track wheel in the middle of the face of the device. These are quite revolutionary improvements from RIM and more evidence that they continue to innovate at a much faster pace than just about anyone else. This may be the BB that finally crosses over.
Posted by nate on Aug 25, 2006 at 06:08pm
Hey, that’s good to know Ken, about the 8100 coming out. I have T-Mobile service and don’t really want to leave them yet. But, if I don’t find a phone I like, when my service is up, I’m out.
I hope the Blackberry 8100 is as nice as you say it is. And I’m glad they’re finally getting a camera, even though I know that’s not the intent of the business-driven RIM.
Thanks Ken!
Posted by Ken on Aug 28, 2006 at 12:49pm
and one last note - for now anyway - the rumors are flying that the new Treo 750 may be released as soon as September. It’ll be a dual band EDGE/WiFi device with the windows mobile 5 OS. I’ll be at the CTIA event 09/12 in LA where, I am hearing, it will be revealed. I’ll let you know if it actually transpires and what I think of it.
Posted by nate on Aug 28, 2006 at 02:48pm
Thanks Ken, I’d be happy to put it in a new post and reference it here for you when you’ve got some info… of course giving you all the attribution.
Posted by Sarah on Aug 29, 2006 at 12:21pm
Thanks so much for all the opinions!!
I am not a geek (LOL) in that I have NO idea of what is around. I currently have a blackberry and own a small business. All 3 partners are up for new phones so we are exploring the options and have really narrowed down to the BB 8700c or the Treo.
When folks have posted the BB is more secure for e-mails. is this only if you are a large company running an enterprise server?
I am keeping with BB, but my co-workers really like the Treo–mainly for the touch screen navigation.
We do use e-mail constantly and it often contains individual’s personal information.
So I am very concerned/intersted in the security issues.
Any insight anyone has would be VERY helpful.
Thanks!!
Posted by nate on Aug 29, 2006 at 01:20pm
Sarah, thanks for writing in! I’m very happy to see some non-geeks contributing to the dialogue.
I’m not so sure about the email security for the BB. However, as a side note, if you are going to stick with the BB, I would suggest you make sure to get one with a full keyboard. Don’t settle for the ones with “smart” typing tech. From my experience, it’s just one more thing to double check when I type anything, and if you’re going to use it for email often this may become a big deal. It’s much quicker to adapt to than the “smart” tech too.
The argument about how smart the keyboard is is a whole ‘nother conversation. My experience hasn’t been too good with it. But, I’ve heard others’ have been good.
Posted by Ken on Aug 29, 2006 at 04:03pm
Sarah - in answer to your question, both the BlackBerry without the server and the Treo in any format (except using a Goodlink server) would be inherently unsecure, which should make you insecure. The real question is: how much security do you really want and/or need and what is it worth to your company? There are scaled down versions of Blackberry servers, these days, configured specifically for small businesses. You may want to take a look at that. The fact is, though, that wireless email isn’t much less secure than any pop3 email you may already be using. And the BB web based solution is inherently more secure than using a laptop in a wifi hot spot, for instance. I can’t comment fully on Treos because there are many different wireless email applications that work with it - some OK - and some definitely not. Feel free to contact me directly if you want any additional advice. You should be aware that I sell wireless solutions - although I will NOT try to sell you anything as I don’t want to use this excellent site for my own personal gain, but rather to disperse information about BB, Treos and other wireless PDAs, smartphones, etc, that I think may be worthy of attention.
Posted by Ken on Aug 31, 2006 at 04:04pm
Here is an interesting item which will certainly create some chat in the BB vs. Treo world - today Palm announced the release of a BlackBerry connect Treo 650, to be offered exclusively through Cingular. This is basically a Treo which can be used with a BlackBerry Enterprise Server. So now, at least in concept, this might be the best of all worlds - the bells and whistles or the Treo married to the security and easy of administration of the Blackberry server. The obvious downside here is that they are only offering it on the 650 model which is pretty much already obsolete, and only on Cingular. When it is offered on the 700 and upcoming 750 - it will certainly be more compelling. I would sure like to hear from anybody who does actually buy this device and uses it with a BES server. I ‘d like to know if it’s as good as Palm says it is - and how it negotiates the Palm OS with the BlackBerry interface. Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to report on it.
Posted by nate on Aug 31, 2006 at 05:38pm
Thanks Ken… If you’d like to comment on this information, I’ve moved it to it’s own post.
Please comment over there. Thanks!
Posted by Chris on Sep 06, 2006 at 06:55am
I have to say that I have really enjoyed reading these opinions. I work in the IT / Healthcare field and see both devices in my environment. We currently run GroupWise for our email system and have a BES installed to communicate messaging and calendaring wirelessly to Blackberrys. Unfortunately, in our environment BBs are very limited because many of our doctors rely on 3rd party software to quickly check things such as drug interactions. The software that allows this and many other medical based applications simply do not have any support for the BB platform. Treos on the other hand do support this software BUT do not sync well with GroupWise. Intellisync and other desktop products work…kinda…but still force the users to visit their office PC to perform the synchronization. I see pros and cons for each device but if I had my choice I would move my company to Exchange and configure my 700w (just got it woohoo) to use Active Sync and be a very happy peon!
Just my opinion,
Chris
Sr. LAN Administrator
Posted by Ken on Sep 06, 2006 at 11:11am
Chris - just fyi - MCS Health has a BlackBerry version of its mobile Drug Interaction guide. And Bellks, Unbound Medicine, ZixCorp and RxRite all make BlackBerry versions of their mobile healthcare software. Many people are under the misconception that there are no (or very little) third party applications available for the BlackBerry but it just isn’t so.
Ken
Posted by jim on Sep 07, 2006 at 05:47pm
thinking of buying a 700w. Can you run a laptop off of it?
Posted by nate on Sep 07, 2006 at 06:13pm
Jim,
If you’re asking about getting internet access through it, yes, with some help from $34 software. But, not by default.
Posted by Ken on Sep 07, 2006 at 07:02pm
Actually, you do not have to buy any software to access the internet through a Treo 700w. But I suspect what Jim is really asking is if the Treo can be used as an “aircard”, or to be more precise, a tethered modem. The answer to that question is, YES. Verizon charges about an extra $15/month above the data plan. Sprint is, so far, giving away that capability, if you have a data plan. Both carrier networks offer EVDO, which is the fastest available today in the US.
Ken
Posted by gary on Sep 10, 2006 at 06:29am
Very interesting discussion as I am a Palm user contemplating a new Treo 700P. However, how long do you wait until biting the bullet in hopes that the newer model will be released soon? Have also been a Mac user for over 20 years.
Posted by Jerry on Sep 17, 2006 at 03:00pm
Appreciate all the comments here. My question: between the BB and the Treo 700, which is best for international travel? I do some and this is one of the considerations for me. Which is most likely to be used in most countries around the world (for text messaging, email, phone, etc.) I am a small biz guy with no Enterprise system.
Posted by Ken on Sep 17, 2006 at 03:50pm
Jerry - unfortunately the Treo 700 only works on the CDMA netowrk of Verizon and Sprint, both of which do not have international capabilities. The only Treo you can use internationally is the 650 with Cingular. You may want to wait for the rumored Treo 750 to be released on Cingular’s network and get latest Treo with international capabilities. The other way to go is to check out the new BB 8100 Pearl” , which I just saw at the CTIA show. It is a knock-out device and works very well without the server back-end. It has a camera, extra memory, is amazingly small and easy to use. It’s a true competitor against the Treo for consumer use and it’s available today on the T-Mobile netwoek, with full international capabilities.
Posted by Damian on Sep 18, 2006 at 02:08pm
I’ve actually owned both a Blackberry and now the Treo 700w. First things first, depending on how your exchange server is set-up you do have the capability of push e-mail on a 700w the same way you have it on a Blackberry; this was one of the major points offered in its release. I’ve never cared about having a camera on my device but its nice to have it. As far as the devices the Treo 700w runs just as smooth as my Blackberry did in fact at times it’s even faster. The major reason I switched was because of the ability to access *.wav files. The Blackberry offered no support at the time though I recently read it would in its next OS release. The Treo is much sleaker looking and the size is preferable to the Blackberry; this occurs is a matter of user preference. PDF’s were at times difficult to access on a Blackberry due to processor speed as well. As far as Treo’s not being a business device is a laugher. Blackberries are more common amoung technical divisions myself included but outside of the tech world most users I met much prefer Treo devices. Now if you’re comaparing the Motorola Q then I’d agree that is a toy; but I’m sure that’s for another blog discussion.
Posted by nate on Sep 18, 2006 at 02:22pm
Thanks everyone, for your continuing comments.
Damian, if you’d like to comment on the Motorola Q, feel free to do so here.
Posted by PATRICK@thepreservea on Oct 01, 2006 at 12:00pm
I have a question about the phone capabilities of the 8700C. I have a 650 (which I love) and it worked great in Mexico. I recently moved to the Caribbean and my ability to pick up a signal is horrible. If I’m not near a tower I get no service. I had to buy an LG just for the phone. I have already sent it to Palm for service and it was returned “fixed” in the same condition. Does the 8700C have good reception?
Posted by Ken on Oct 01, 2006 at 09:03pm
Patrick - the issue is not the device - it’s really the network and the international roaming agreements that are in place at the specific location. You didn’t mention what carrier your Treo 650 is with ( or your LG phone). The 8700C is specifically a Cingular network BlackBerry. Generally speaking, both Cingular and T-Mobile have good international roaming agreements. There is a website called gsmworld.com, if I remember correctly, where you should be able to find out what the coverage is like at your specific location, and who the local provider is. You should also check directly with Cingular and see if any of their customer service people are equipped to give you some answers. I know plenty of people who successfully use a Treo 650 all around the world - but only if it is with Cingular. A CD A version on sprint or verizon will not work internationally.
Ken
Posted by PATRICK@thepreservea on Oct 02, 2006 at 01:25pm
Thanks for your response. I have Cingular. I can be in a remote location and get NO SIGNAL on the Treo, take out the SIM card, put it in the LG phone and get full service. I have gone through the entire online litany of “fixes”, sent it back to Palm for repair and it still sucks. I really don’t want to replace it and when I am in town it’s OK, not great, just OK, but I don’t know what my other options are.
Patrick
Posted by Ken on Oct 02, 2006 at 03:18pm
Patrick - that is definitely an unusual for a Treo. From what I’ve seen, the signal strength capabilities of that device is generally on par or better than most cellphones because the antenna and the expanded “footprint” of the Treo (where the internal antenna wraps around) compared to a typical phone, is much larger. Anyway, to answer your original question - I’ve used the 8700c Blackberry for about 6 months and thought it had excellent signal strength. I did not use it in the Carribean, only domestically and in Europe. But I got excellent voice and data reception in my travels.
Ken
Posted by PATRICK@thepreservea on Oct 03, 2006 at 07:12am
I decided to take one more shot with Palm service and hopefully it paid off. They are sending me a replacement for the 650. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I really don’t want to change.
Posted by Peter on Oct 06, 2006 at 10:15am
I am looking to replace my old Treo 600 and remain undetermined at this time as for which comparable device to settle with. I am with Cingular and currently do not have a data plan (but would like to have it). I would apprectiate your comments on a couple of quesitons:
Does Citrix support Treo and/or Blackberry devices discussed here?
What are the approximate cost differentials between the Treo and Blackberry plans to be able to run the browser?
Posted by Ken on Oct 06, 2006 at 11:31am
Peter -
I am no expert on Citrix but my understanding is that there is third party software available for both the BlackBerry and Palm OS. I’m also pretty sure that there is now a windows mobile app available, too. All should allow you to access, monitor, and administer Citrix functions, from what I’ve been told.
As for price plans, data plans for BlackBerry and Treo, across carriers, tends to be about the same, around $45 - $50/month plus a voice plan. The only exception to this is T-Mobile, which tends to run a good $10 - $15 less. Only limitation there is that T-Mobile does not support Treos, so that would be BB pricing only.
Posted by Ken on Oct 06, 2006 at 03:10pm
Peter - also, one of my industry buddies told me about a company called Idokorro (www.idokorro.com), that makes an app that allows you to “manage a full range of network managment functions” from a BB, using Citirx. This is not a personal endoresement of the product, however, they are a registered BB solutions partner, for whatever that is worth.
Ken
Posted by Peter on Oct 07, 2006 at 04:18pm
Thanks, Ken, for the detailed and helpful info.
As a consumer, I am quite amazed by the growing opportunities to be more and more productive both personally and professionally. One becomes schizophrenic contemplating getting the employer to adopt these technological advances and at the same time fearful of the emplyers’ growing expectations to have business taken care of anytime anywhere. I believe it was Sir Robert Shaw who once said Americans had the most time-saving machines and yet had the least time to do what they needed to do. But I digressed.
By the way, I noted that Nokia came out with E62 not too long ago and some office synching functions and web browsing are possible. What are the general words/thoughts out there about it?
Posted by Ken on Oct 07, 2006 at 08:56pm
Peter - the Nokia E62 is actually a pretty interesting device - comparable to a Treo or a BlackBerry in terms of its core functionality and features. I had a chance to play with one for a while and I was pleasantly surprised with it’s layout and relative ease of use. Nokia has been trying for quite some time to make a data device this (business) user friendly and it looks as if they finally got it mostly right. Plusses include its BlackBerry and Goodlink compatability. So, yes, it can be used with a BlackBerry Enterprise Server, just like a “real” BlackBerry. The other upside is that I hear that it will be available for only $149.99 on Cingular, which makes it a real bargain, considering its capabilities. The downside is that is an unsexy piece of hardware. It’s certainly not as seamless or as pretty as the new generation BlackBerrys, and it lacks many of the extra slick features of the Treo. On the other hand, I personally think it beats the heck out of Motorola’s overhyped Q phone. My understanding is that it will be offered first on Cingular’s network. I haven’t heard any release plans from other carriers for this model. The screen resolution and brightness was ok (although I didn’t test it outdoors) and the full QWERTY keyboard had a good feel to it - as did the “trackball” located in the middle of the device (just like the new BlackBerry Pearl).
Posted by Pościel Wełniana on Oct 22, 2006 at 01:30am
Blackberry 8700c is definitively the best of the Blackberry line.
Posted by Lynne on Oct 22, 2006 at 09:28am
I am interested in purchasing a smart phone. I currently use a Palm for calendar and info. Can I only use a treo if i want all my information to transfer or would I be able to transfer info to the blackberry?
Posted by Ken on Oct 24, 2006 at 08:04am
Lynne - the best way to transfer any information is to make sure it all exists on your desktop. The BlackBerry will synch with your Outlook and, for me at least, that is the bet way of “transferring” data - not device to device but through Intellisync using either Outlook or whatever other programs you may use instead. By the way, your Palm is using Intellisync, as well.
Posted by Dave on Oct 24, 2006 at 04:17pm
I am looking to purchase a PDA and trying to decide between the BB 8700c or the Treo 700w/wx. I have read this entire website and alot of others and I am still confused. My priority is that I need instant e-mail and the ability to respond online. So I need push e-mail and a good browser. I get my e-mail through Yahoo web based mail. Yahoo has an upgraded service called Yahoo plus, do I need it to get push e-mail?
My service provider is Sprint, but I am not married to them and i am willing to switch. Can I buy a phone with a new carrier and reclaim my phone number when my service with Sprint ends?
Also, can I select whether I recieve certain e-mails instantly on my PDA and leave others to be dealt with by going to my online account. I’m pretty sure I can do this with the BB, but I don’t know about the Treo.
I also like the idea of portable memory for documents, music, and other data files. This seems like it favors the Treo. However, if document editing is not very practical, it would not give it much of an advantage over the BB.
Also, I hear people complaining about the windows opertating system. Is this a real concern ? I keep going back and forth on these issues and others like, I want a good phone too!! Help!!!!
Posted by Ken on Oct 24, 2006 at 06:15pm
Dave - although I personally favor the BlackBerry for core email functionality (especially push email), it really comes down to a matter of personal taste - EXCEPT - that I strongly dislike the windows mobile o/s and how it works on all “compatible” devices. So I think your choice should be between a BlackBerry and a Treo 700P - NOT a 700w or wx. Windows mobile is a very inferior platform to either the palm or blackberry platforms.
Also - the BB 8700 is now available on CDMA carriers, such as Verizon and Sprint, as well as Cingular. (On Verizon it is labelled as an 8703).
Also Cingular should be releasing a Treo 750 in the next few weeks. It will be only Windows Mobile, though, so I don’t suspect I will like it much.
You should also check out the new BlackBerry Pearl (8100) available only through T-Mobile, at the moment. It is getting rave reviews and seems to have those little extras that people have gotten only previously from the Treo - such as a good camera and extra memory capability.
Ken
Posted by Dave on Oct 25, 2006 at 05:52am
Thanx for the input Ken. Does that mean i can’t get push email with the Treo using Yahoo mail? And if the windows OS is so bad, so I can’t edit word documents with the Treo 700p? Or should I wait for the 750? I’m still confused!!
Posted by Robert on Oct 25, 2006 at 07:39am
totally disagree with ken about the windows os being inferior.. i don’t have a treo, but i have another wm5 device.. and i love it… push mail, MS office support built in.. outlook like you know and love, etc… i would prefer a better web browser than the pocket ie, but i haven’t spent any time looking to see what options there are for that.
personally, i detest blackberry’s and palm’s.. they’ve always been a LOT of trouble compared to my windows mobile devices.. none of them are perfect no matter how you look at it. but, for getting my mails, opening attachments, and communicating with business contacts, i prefer windows mobile.
bottom line is that you need to play with all of them and make up your own mind… cingular has all 3 types of OS’s on various phones.. 30 day guarantee too.. so, play with one, return it for another one and do it again.. you’ll figure out which you like the best.. then go with whatever phone YOU prefer.
the main problem with treo’s at this point IMHO is their lack of international support. This is why i came to this blog to see if anyone had any luck with getting the 700w to work internationally… i guess not from what i can tell here.. but most people here seem to be pretty opinionated (myself included haha) and uninformed.
good luck.
Posted by Ken on Oct 25, 2006 at 10:34am
Dave - first of all, I want to strongly urge you to disregard Robert’s statements. He is sadly under-informed. The key statement which reveals his lack of understanding is, “I cam to this blog to see if anyone had any luck with getting the 700w to work internationally.” As someone could tell Robert, a 700w is a CDMA device (probably purchased through Verizon or one of its dealers) so it has no international capabilities. Period. Unless you count Canada. Only Cingular and T-Mobile can offer international service that includes Europe and Asia. So what Robert really should have purchased is a Treo 650 on Cingular if he wanted a Treo and international capability. What he will really want is the 750, on Cingular when that is released. Also - I have found that most of the people who have been on this blog to be extremely knowledgable. This has been a great resource for me and I think I know everything.
Now on to you — there is no real, true push email for your Yahoo mail. The only true push solution is found by using a server like a BES or Goodlink in an enterprise environment, which is clearly not what you have. The next best thing which looks like it’s pushing email is really a timed retrieval of your email. So every 5 minutes or so your device will look for email and pull it down. It does it automatically, so you don’t actuallly have to do it yourself - but it’s not quite as immediate (or as reliable) as a behind-the-firewall, server solution.
As for Windows Mobile 5, although it is my opinion that it is far inferior to the palm or BB platforms, it is NOT just my opinion. Verizon has experienced a huge return problem with their Motorola Q “smartphone” (probably the worst, percentage-wise, in their history) and the problem is not the device itself, which is actually pretty cool. The heart of the problem is that it is a windows mobile 5 device. It is a glitchy, unstable, unintuitive, needlessly complex, and surprisingly limited platform - especially when compared to the BB and Palm O/S. Don’t forget, the BB and Palm guys have been playing in this arena for years now. They’re very good at it. Microsoft has just now, finally, decided to dunk their big toe in. And, as usual for them, their first iteration is lousy.
As for wanting to be able to edit a windows document, like word or excel, well I personally would not want to use a device as small as a smartphone to do that. It can be done but why not just buy a very small laptop and an aircard and be done with it?
By the way, the phone/voice capability on both the current crop of BBs and Treos is actually very good.
So, if all you need is domestic coverage you should look at a Treo 700p. What most people like about palm is that there are thousands and thousands of third party providers who can offer just about any type of capability you could ever want on a Treo.
Finally, just to provide full disclosure, I run a wireless managed services business. I’m a data alliance partner for one of the big carriers, a master dealer for another, I’m RIM certified and goodlink certified, as well. My client list includes F1000 and govt agencies. My return rate on the Treo 700w is currently running at about 5 times the rate of the 700p. That’s an astounding difference.
Hope that helps
Ken
Posted by Anonymous on Oct 30, 2006 at 09:44pm
Ive been using a Treo 650 for almost a year now and decided to switch to a Blackberry 8700 series. I don’t think anyone has bothered to touch on the horrible INSTABILITY of PalmOS. It’s comparable to how unstable MacOS System 6/7 used to be. Frequent reboots occur numerous times daily. If you keep the thing barebones - meaning, no extra software installed, you might have better luck. I have kept this Treo at the latest firmware revs and still no improvement. Until the new linux based palmos replacement comes out, im going to stick with the rock solid RIM os. Id rather not miss phone calls due to the palm resetting and the radio not turning back on (of course you can buy addition plugins to allow for that)… Much like havent not used windows for years (now im on osx), i just want something that *works*. Not something I have to dick around with constantly.
Posted by nate on Oct 31, 2006 at 09:10am
Anon,
It’s unfortunate that you’ve had those problems. I had heard of other people having the same problem. Fortunately for me and the rest of my company (of 8 people) none of us ever had those problems you’ve described. We all had the Treo 650 with Sprint service and everything always worked flawlessly. In about a year I probably rebooted two times.
So, I think it’s pretty safe to say that the problems Anon described is not always across the board. If you get a Treo that does that, take it back and get a different one.
Posted by Anonymous on Oct 31, 2006 at 10:03am
Hey Nate,
I actually have been through 3 different treos. Not sure if the EVDO models are more stable (I was on EDGE/Cingular). PalmOS was great when it first came out. I started with a Palm 5000, then Palm III, then a Visor. I’m still not fond of the fact that PalmOS doesn’t have multitasking capabilties (it does support a sort of “emulated” for background stuff, but that’s more like the old DOS TSR stuff). Again, it seems the more apps you throw on one, the more unstable it becomes. Especially the apps that “try” to run in the background (i.e: Toccer, TreoGuard, etc). Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to try the Windows version, but personally I quiver at the idea (I stay as far away from Microsoft-anything as possible). The TCP/IP stack in PalmOS just seems rather weak, almost like they rigged it to work with newer, wireless devices. I guess we’ll wait to see what happens with the Access Linux stuff.
Posted by nate on Oct 31, 2006 at 10:24am
I fully agree with ya on the multitasking stuff. I wish it did that. Perhaps that was part of your problem (the apps that try to run in the background).
I also am very afraid of the 700w. Since I found the light (namely, OS X and open source), I have gotten away from anything M$.
Regardless, I’m very excited about the Linux stuff, too.
BTW, thanks for joining into the comments! I appreciate everyone’s comments here. It’s definitely making this a place to discuss the pros and cons of both the BB’s and the Treos sanely.
Props to all of you!
Posted by Mike Lines on Nov 04, 2006 at 01:02am
I haven’t weighed for a while. Since I’ve posted here last I’ve owned the Treo 700p, the Blackberry 8703e and finally the Blacberry Pearl- which is my current phone. The Palm/Blackberry war at this point to me is almost a joke. It seems that Palm is forever doomed to making buggy, unreliable smartphones and that’s fine with me. The Blackberry Pearl is by far the best phone on the market currently and makes the over-priced Treo 700p/w/wx look downright sad. I give some credit for these improvements to the interface tMobile developed (which seems almost as simply and elegant as the best operating system in existence- 10.4.9) But I also give RIM a tremendous amount of credit for making such a great device. The screen on the Pearl is breathtaking, and images, and videos look splendid. Email as always works wonderfully and above all else, it’s stable. Finally the best of both worlds- in a package Palm can’t come close to.
Blackberryland is a much, much nicer place then Palmsville.
Posted by coach@grauel.net on Nov 14, 2006 at 09:29pm
ok, i have read almost every post in this blog and still have questions. first, some background i am a mac user in a windows world and need a device (phone/pda) that will cross platforms AND allow for good telephone reception, i am also a sprint user. i own an old handspring and it is on its last leg. i need to keep track of email, chat, calendar and of course conversations. treoP or blackberry 7130e or 8703e any advice is greratly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Posted by Ken on Nov 14, 2006 at 10:12pm
I, too, am a mac user. And I am currently using a BlackBerry 7130 on Cingular. If you want to stay with Sprint, I would recommend the 8703. BBs now come with software for MAC called PocketMac. It should be included with the device. I’ve installed it and used it and it seems to work just fine. Understand, though, that the synch to you calendar, address book, etc. will be cabled, not wireless, real time, assuming that you are not on a BlackBerry server. However, the email piece is, of course, wireless, and seamless. So as long as you are willing to periodically synch your BB to your MAC, this should be a decent, although certainly not perfect solution. There is also some instant messenger/chat capabilities with the BB although I don’t use them so I’m not qualified to tell you how well they work. Overall, I’ve been happy with my experience.
Ken
Posted by nate on Nov 14, 2006 at 11:36pm
And, on the other side of the fence, I’d suggest the Treo 700P for the mac. It syncs all the items you mentioned without any problems (or extra software). The one thing that it doesn’t do without some extra help is “push-based” email. To get that running requires a service from Good Tech. But, from my experience, it’s worth it, especially if you have an Exchange service (the enterprise version of Outlook for the workplace), because then it syncs calendars, address books, email, etc without hooking it up to your computer. They are always sync’d. Even if you don’t get the service from Good Tech, it still does check your email like any other POP3 client (every x number of minutes), so there’s not much difference than your computer.
I do know that Sprint had the 650, and Verizon currently has the 700p. I’m not sure who else has the 700p at the moment.
The one big downside to the Treo is its price. I don’t think the 680 has really come down in price that much either, so it won’t help. But, if you have the clink and the extra little add-ons, they make your sync’d life wonderful.
If you want to save some money, and don’t mind hooking it up to your system, lots of people who frequent this post and blog (including Ken) will recommend the Blackberry, and I would join them in that case.
Posted by coach on Nov 15, 2006 at 07:40pm
nate and ken,
thanks guys, unfortunately now all you have done is convince me that i am looking at the right 2 products. at this time the email is not as important as cal, contacts. sprint has both the 700p and the 8703. i am not currently using outlook at work but some form of a netscape email, with serious restrictions on the software allowed to install. maybe i am asking the wrong question. how good is the telephone of each of these units? how is reception? do either work in analog areas, yes there are still some of those in the middle of the country..is the grafiti easier than the push button thing?
sorry to generate more questions, but seeing as how the treo is alot of “clink” i want to make this purchase once.
Posted by nate on Nov 15, 2006 at 07:47pm
coach,
No problem on the more questions bit. That’s exactly why this post exists and what the people here do - answer questions.
I don’t know much about either product on the reception or analog abilities. However, the Treo 600 on up does not use the graphiti system, so you don’t have to worry about that. It has a full keyboard. The stylus pen that comes with it is completely for an alternate way of getting around. I typically used the middle button to navigate and occasionally used the stylus when needed, but you can do quite a bit without the stylus at all.
That’s my point of view from the Treo side. I’m sure Ken will weigh in as soon as he gets notified that you’ve posted.
Posted by Mike on Nov 15, 2006 at 07:47pm
Coach:
As much as I HATE to say this, the Treo 700p is your PERFECT product. Go buy one- don’t look back. Trust me on this one, I’ve owned more smartphones then you could begin to imagine.
Posted by coach on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:06pm
mike,
why do you say the treo is perfect and why do you hate to say it?
Posted by coach on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:08pm
nate,
thanks again. i await kens response too.
Posted by Ken on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:18pm
coach - you will get the same capabilities with either the BlackBerry or Treo P series, albeit in differing formats. Your question about analog coverage is important because you should be aware that the data stuff will not work on either device in analog areas - just the phone. And they will work as well (or as badly) as any other cellphone configured for Sprint’s network. The Treo used to have the edge on voice quality but the BB 7130 and 8700 series are definitely on par with the Treo, these days. You should also know that Sprint is now poised to overtake Verizon in nationwide deployment of their EVDO data network, so they are a good choice. As for which device is better - I said it once and I’ll say it again - you would be best served going to your local Sprint store and playing with both. It really comes down to personal preference - how the device fits in your hand, what you think of a scroll wheel as a navigation tool as oposed to a stylus, etc. Just stay away from the Treo 700wx and you will be ok. Oh yeah - and stay away from any Nextel BB products, as well. They are inferior.
Ken
Posted by coach on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:23pm
thanks for the advice. i will avoid the wx machine as that sounds like a windozer. one question, EVDO, care to explain?
Posted by Ken on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:48pm
Coach -
Sure. Both Verizon and Sprint run on CDMA networks. Cingular and T-Mobile run on gsm/gprs/EDGE.
Anyway, as the technology has progressed, the data speeds have gotten faster. The first significant breakthrough on CDMA was a data network called 1xrtt. But since then, Verizon and Sprint have been busily building a 3G network (third generation), which is called EV-DO. And now there are even two versions of that. These data networks are simply overlays on top of the CDMA voice network. Today, EV-DO is the fastest data network available in the US that runs on a “cellphone” network. A Palm and a BlackBerry have the capability of running on EV-DO and also on 1xrtt if there is no EV-DO present. However, they will not run on analog because there is basically no useable data overlay on analog. Hope that helps.
Ken
Posted by coach on Nov 15, 2006 at 08:52pm
so i guess the last question (hopefully) is how do the two compare on download speeds?
Posted by Ken on Nov 15, 2006 at 09:10pm
Coach - these days they both have similar processing power, which is the real key, because the network is the network. I’m sure there are a chorus of folks out there who will tell you that the browser experience on the Treo is still superior to the BB and I would have to concede that. As for email, there are so many variables that come into play that sheer download speed is probably the least significant factor. I remember way way back, five years ago, when a BB on a data only Mobitex network, which, by today’s standards is so slow as to be a joke - still managed to deliver emails almost instanteously, using a BB server.
As an aside, I would also recommend that you check with your company’s IT folks and see what their actual rules and restrictions are in regard to forwarding or re-directing email to a wireless device. It’s now secure enough for the Federal gov’t and literally every single F1000 company, using either Good Technology or BlackBerry Enterprise Server. So it should be good enough for them. Even if you have some weird email platform, there are many providers out there who offer approved methods of linking to either server solution.
Ken
Posted by coach on Nov 16, 2006 at 07:14pm
Ken,
thanks for this iinformation it has been extremely helpful. how about document transfers? can i move documents from my pc at work to the BB then to my mac?
Posted by Ken on Nov 16, 2006 at 09:09pm
Coach - that is a question that I cannot answer without having a lot more insight into what type of documents you want to “move” and what the security restrictions are at your place of business. Generically speaking, BBs are capable of opening (and therefore forwarding) many commonly used microsoft formats, such as Word and Excel. So, for instance, if you sent a Word document as an attachment to your email, your BB would be able to open/read it and forward it. And BBs (and Palms) are good at getting any web based data, providing, of course, that your company allows you to grab it off their (assumed) intranet site. Your question is very generic and there are a lot of variables, so it’s difficult to give you a precise answer.
Ken
Posted by Ken on Nov 16, 2006 at 09:24pm
Coach - the more I think about your question, the less sense it actually makes to me. Your wireless device (BB or Palm) would already be associated with either your work email/desktop or your home email/desktop. So it’s not a matter of doing this two step maneuver, work to BB to home. It’s really the same one step action you would normally take, which is: work to home. The wireless device should not mean an extra step in the process. If you can’t already move your documents from work to home, the wireless device probably isn’t going to enable that. It’s just a means of remotely managing an already existing set-up.
Ken
Posted by coach on Nov 18, 2006 at 01:13pm
let me try to clairify. if i want to bring home a large powerpoint or spreadsheet, too large to mail, then which system will allow for easiest use in performing a function such as this. i can burn a disk, but if i can use the docs to go then i can eliminate that and use the phone as a back up too. i have heard the treo is better at this function.
hope this is clearer.
Posted by Ken on Nov 18, 2006 at 02:22pm
Coach - If I understand your question, then my answer is unfortunately, that neither device, as a stand-alone, can perform this function. The way to achieve true access to your work documents from a remote location (which sounds, ultimately like what you are trying to achieve) is to have your company set up a VPN to your home desktop. It seems to me that you incorrectly perceive the Treo or BB to be some sort of document transport device, which it really is not. If you look at these devices as part of a server-based solution, such as using a BlackBerry Enterprise Server, then you can, indeed access whatever data in whatever format your company chooses to make available, using BB’s MDS capabilities. So that would be useful to you if you are mobile and need to access this data on the fly. It provides no benefit to you, at all, in terms of attempting to move the data from your work desktop to your home desktop. Anything you would do on the BB or Treo (again assuming it is server-based) is the equivalent of doing it on your desktop. And as stand-alone devices, your capabilities are actually much more limited. The basic rule of thumb here is: if you can’t do it on your desktop you probably can’t do it on a wireless device, either. And, again, the only way to access your documents is with a server based solution, such as the BES or the Goodlink server (for the Treo). And that approach is something your company would have to put in place and then provide access to. The only other thing I can think of is getting one of those chewing gum sized memory sticks and save files to that and bring that home. You don’t need a treo or BB to do that, and they are a lot less expensive and have a lot more memory. It just doesn’t seem to me that you really need wireless connectivity to achieve your objective.
Anyway, good luck with it!
Ken
Posted by coach on Nov 18, 2006 at 05:37pm
thanks ken. i still need the phone, calendar and contact management system. i had just heard that using docs to go you could transfer files too large to send via email using the treo/bb as a conduit. not my primary forcus. i really need to be able to track my schedule and contacts and connect with both mac and windoze. i appreciate your time.
jim
Posted by Dave on Nov 18, 2006 at 07:01pm
Thanx to everyone on this blog and much other research, I decided to buy the Treo 700p. I think I made the right decision. The blackberry Pearl is a very nice item, but I much prefer the touch screen and a regular keyboard that my Treo has and the Pearl does not. The Pearl is the only blackberry with an expandable memory but the qwerky keyboard is a deal breaker for me. So for me, the Treo is the only smartphone that does it all.
Although it doesn’t have true push email, it can auto sync every so many minutes anywhere from 1 to 10 different email accounts. This is a real nice feature to be able to prioritize email from different sources. You do not even need the extra “Goodlink ” program to do this. The standard “versa mail” program does this with a very easy set up. You don’t have to be a computor geek to do it.
I was talked off the 700wx to buy the 700p do to stability issues associated with it being the first Treo with a windows OS. I have not had any stability issues with my 700p. It works seamlessly with my Windows XP desktop. Adding necesary software is pretty easy to. All in all I am trilled with my choice and very appreciative of eveyone’s imput. Thanx again.
Posted by nate on Nov 18, 2006 at 08:59pm
Dave,
That’s outstanding! Thank you for your report back on your purchase and how happy you’ve been and why. Those are great reasons which are helpful to everyone who reads this (which is a ton of people by the way. This is the most popular post in the entire blog.) So, thanks to everyone who’s made this post so great!
Posted by Dropped Calls? on Nov 23, 2006 at 11:22am
This blog has been very helpful as I am considering either the 8703e or the 700p. I had a 650 with cingular but it dropped calls so often I had to return it (i’m in South Florida). I loved it but it just kept dropping calls. Since then moved to Verizon and have an old bb that is ok. How is the treo vs. bb on call quality?
Posted by Andrew DiNardo on Nov 23, 2006 at 11:23am
sorry, I didn’t realize the first box was for my name!!!!! My name is not Dropped Calls
Posted by Andrew DiNardo on Nov 23, 2006 at 11:25am
Another question: I’m thinking of switching to Sprint, as ‘it seems’ their data package is much cheaper. Also is it true that it is cheaper to check it email, etc. using Palm than with wireless cost for BB?
Posted by Anonymous on Nov 23, 2006 at 12:19pm
Andrew, first up let me just mention that I received your messagne and I am responding to it on my blackberry. Now to your question: call quality as you describe it is really more a function of the carrier than the device. These days I would rate both the new BB’s and the Treo as about the same. So it’s the carrier that will define the experience. As for pricing, across the board the carriers tend to charge the same for unlimited data whether it is for a BB or a Treo. The two carriers with the best rates are indeed Sprint as you mentioned and also tmobile. In fact their BB data rate is the cheapest out there, down to 19.99 a month if you are not using a blackberry enterprise server. But you better make sure their coverage is acceptable to you. If it is then lookat the new BB pearl. I like it a lot earvauslly if you are not doing a lot of typing. If you are curious, I am using a model 7130 on cingular at the airport.
Ken
Posted by Andrew DiNardo on Nov 23, 2006 at 12:39pm
thanks Ken,
Since my post (about an 1hr ago!) I’ve opened up to any network and may prefer tmobile or cingular for their international coverage (i’m a pastor and travel overseas 3 times a year for mission trips). early posts mentioned that bb does have 3rd party software options. Obviously a bible program is all I really need. I would use the email but the bb email costs is pretty expensive and the truth is I don’t get many emails I need to reply to immediately. The more I look the harder it is becoming to choose. How is the suretype on the pearl?
thanks and have a great thanksgiving
Posted by Ken on Nov 26, 2006 at 11:13am
Andrew - my previous post is probably a good example of what SureType can do on a BB. You’ll notice that I botched the word “especially”. It turned into “earvauslly” because I didn’t check back on it. But overall, I am very impressed with SureType. As a long-term user of BBs, I thought I would hate the abbreviated keypad, but I’ve been very happy with the trade-off in size and I’m become very accustomed to SureType and it works well for me. The real limitation, as I see it, on the Pearl, is how small the keypad is. It is significantly smaller than the one on my 7130. So, again, if you don’t see yourself typing long messages, such as my previous post to you, than the small keypad shouldn’t matter all that much. Many people who have BBs (or Treos) use them mostly to read their emails and send short replies. If you think you are going to send longer messages, then I would recommend the 8700 series BB or any Treo from the 650 to the 700p. As for the carrier - with international travel being a consideration, I would agree that you are limited to cingular and t-mobile for true international coverage. And in terms of price, t-mobile has the edge. In terms of coverage, Cingular has better domestic coverage, but internationally, their roaming agreements are looking very similar, these days.
Ken
Posted by Andrew DiNardo on Nov 26, 2006 at 07:22pm
Thanks again Ken,
My church uses Sprint and I noticed the 8703e has GPS. Do you know if this is extra cost if you have the data service. Also it allows you to send pics with text messages, but doesn’t have a camera. How exactly do you send pics then?
Posted by Ken on Nov 27, 2006 at 11:48am
Andrew - we’ll start with the photo question. Yes, you can receive and send pictures even though the 8703 does not have a camera. You can “grab” and save jpeg pictures from the internet and then send them